It's sort of a combo! new card that helps yawgmoth's will

Beyond Dominia: The Type One Magic Mill: It's sort of a combo! new card that helps yawgmoth's will

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By Jacob Orlove, aspiring paragon (Orlove) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 06:32 pm:

I was reading the Judgement FAQ, and one note on the red card that lets you play cards from any players graveyard as though they were in your own was this: if you play yawgwill, then when you cast a card from your opponent's graveyard, it goes back to your opponent's graveyard(so you can cast it again, and again, and...you get the idea). Yes, that does mean infinite mana if they have a lotus in the grave (or 3 cards for each blue mana you have :))

Anyway, it's not a great card, but everyone should know about any potentially infinite mana combos, or at least the ones that depend in part on good cards.


By Dreisgen (Dreisgen) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:15 pm:

What is the name of that card?


By Steve O'Connell, King of Metaphors (Zherbus) on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:43 pm:

shamans hypnotic scrotum


By MeatPipeline (Meatpipeline) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 12:04 am:

Where is the Judgement FAQ? I can't seem to find it on the wizards site?

Thanks

Phil (meatpipeline)


By Browser (Cox) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 12:56 am:

Here's the list:

http://topdeck.tripod.com/judgmentmtgospoiler.html

The card referred to here is Shaman's Trance.

Instant for 2R.

Until EOT, other player's cant play spells from their graveyards. And you can play spells from their graveyards as tho they were in your graveyard.


By Cavalry19D (Cavalry) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 04:14 am:

if you play Y. Will though, all your spells that would normally go into the graveyard are removed from the game though.


By Dozer, Collector's Edition Disciple (Dozer) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 05:53 am:

Yes, but it goes into your opponents graveyard, and Y.'s Will explicitly states:
"If a card would be put into *your* graveyard this turn, remove that card from the game instead." (emphasis mine)

Seems like R&D didn't really think about Type 1 while creating Judgement - Worldgorger Dragon, this... What's next?

Dozer

Legalize it!


By Gzeiger, not a paragon (Gzeiger) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 06:32 am:

Because clearly Yawgmoth's Will, like Donate, requires additional combo parts before it can be a good card...


By Justin (Justin) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 08:25 am:

shamans hypnotic scrotum -i just choked on my coffee


By DefiantVanguardVs.PhyrexianInvasion (Puschkin) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 08:39 am:

If the above wording is correct I don´t get why you need Yawgie´s Will. Just play Shaman´s Trance and replay their Lotus, Ancestral and so on.


By CF (Cf) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 08:47 am:

Puschkin: Read it again. "you may play spells from their graveyards as though they were in your graveyard." Usually, you can't play spells from your own graveyard, can you?

--
Chris


By Florian "Laccolith" Grund (Kerith) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 09:07 am:

perhaps i'm wrong, but since they are not in your graveyard you can't play them with yawgmoth's will. looks a little bit like those can-block-like-flyers creatures.
did you post this in the rules forum ?

cy@


By Florian "Laccolith" Grund (Kerith) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 09:11 am:

it's like yawgmoth's will+cycling.
you can cards as though they where in your hand
but you can't use cycling, because they
are actually not in your hand


By Dandan (Dandan) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 09:43 am:

Exactly, otherwise Three Wishes would be a strong card. Wish then Brainstorm. I wish it worked.

I assume Gzeiger is being sarcastic about YawWill. Otherwise putting it in the same sentence as crd like Donate is an insult. Most people agree a late game YawgWill means I win (assuming it resolves, many players choose to try to avoid this happening against them!). Early game YawgWill usually means I'm trying not to lose a lost game.
So using another card that combos with YawgWill is like using a Viagra instead of that post sex cigarette.


By Nevyn, the Village Idiot (Nevyn) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 10:46 am:

Actually, the yawg will trick should work unless there is more errata.

Yawgwill lets you PLAY (which means announce and cast using it's costs) cards from your graveyard.

The trance lets you play his grave as if it was your grave, so when both are cast you should be able to play his spells and lands (from grave) until end of turn. I expect one of these cards to get errata (just because it looks like an oversight).

This is not really broken however. You need to be able to cast 2 3 mana sorceries on the same turn (of different colours) to use it (one of which is restricted), and whether this is any good depends entirely on the contents of your opponents grave.

So in theory a lotus would be infinite mana if your opponent had played it, but you are counting on your opponent having one and having already used it. Other cards would be nice too, but you are gambling on what your opponent will have in his/her grave. Plus, if you can resolve will, dont you just win anyway?


By Westwycke (Westwycke) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 10:52 am:

Did I hear Rules Mill mentioned?

Y. Will lets you cast spells from your graveyard as though they were in your hand.

For instance, a Sandbar Merfolk(blue, 1/1, Cycling):
Can't be pitched to Force of Will
Can't be put into play with Elvish Piper
Can't be discarded to Wild Mongrel
Can't be cycled to draw a card
Can be cast by paying the CC

All these are because the card in your graveyard can be treated as though it were in your hand ONLY for the purpose of casting it.

Shaman's Trance was designed with the Flashback mechanism in mind. While you could always cast Flashback spells from your own graveyard, Trance was designed to allow you to cast Flashback spells from your opponent's graveyard. It even prevents them from doing so so there is no conflict over who has the right to cast a specific spell.

Since Trance allows you to treat spells in opponent's graveyards as though they were in your graveyard for purposes of casting them, and Yawgmoth's Will allows you to treat spells in your graveyard as though they were in your hand for the purpose of casting them, this means that the two together allows you to raid your opponent's graveyard for anything you can cast.

Of course, as Dandan pointed out, if you have the mana and cards to cast both Will and Trance, and still have mana left to cast your opponent's spells too, WHY HAVEN'T YOU WON ALREADY?

One thing to not be surprised about if it happens:
I suspect Yawgmoth's Will might get errata that makes the spells cast be removed from game instead of going to any graveyard(i.e. replacing the phrase 'your graveyard' with 'any graveyard').

WestWycke
Rules Mill Maintainer


By Do-Man, the Apprentice (Doman) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 01:01 pm:

The card is crap for T1. I thought about it for a bit when the Judgement spoiler came out and realized that you still needed to play Will. So you need 4BR before you can even *begin* to play a card from the opponents graveyard.

As West points out, Flashback must be the only reason this card exists.

Only use I could see in T1 would be in response to YWill, but that is too narrow of a use up slots in any deck.


By Nevyn, the Village Idiot (Nevyn) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 02:59 pm:

i checked with the judge list to confirm. as of now it does work ..... and I still dont care much. will is enough on its own.


By The Bahoo (Ben) on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 03:08 pm:


Quote:

Only use I could see in T1 would be in response to YWill, but that is too narrow of a use up slots in any deck.




Yep, and a counterspell would stop your opponent's YawgWill as well (in addition to just about anything else).


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