By Lord of the Goats (Goat) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 09:37 am: late last night tinkering with a tinker list from last extended season. it ran gush, morph and upheaval in addition to the regular tinker stuff, and cut metal workers and a couple dynamos. well after playing a few times i decided i hate the tinkering part of the deck. i always wanted to tinker for either upheaval, morph, or some card that wasn't in my deck(or legal most of the time..... memory jar anyone?). as it turns out, i hate tinker....
so i got to thinking about what i did like about the deck: upheaval, morph, gush, and acceleration. tinker isn't on that list. being the avid type 1 player that i am i decided to whip up a type 1 deck for shits and giggles. i didn't expect what i got.
i ened up with a deck that had just as many counters as keeper, more acceleration, more threats, more card drawing, a reset button, and could run b2b. sound a lot like bbs? that's what i thought. anyway, here's my list after a wopping 1 night of "tinkering".
-blue- 26
4 gush
3 morph
2 upheaval
4 force of will
4 drain
1 mystical
1 mis-d
1 fof
1 walk
1 stroke
1 tinker
1 geyser
1 ancestral
1 merchant scroll
-black- 3
1 demonic
1 twist
1 will
-artifact(nonmana)- 3
1 karn
1 masticore
1 memory jar
-mana- 30
1 crypt
1 vault
1 grim monolith
1 sol ring
5 moxen
1 lotus
8 island
1 academy
1 strip
4 sea
1 library
4 city of traitors
it's quite fast and can do some pretty broken things. some explainations:
4 gush- with mad artifact mana, your need for lands in play becomes less. also lets you get some drawing in prior to upheaval.
2 upheaval- amazing global reset. just like in type screw, float mana drop creature... except that morphling is better than nimble mongoose. i can't believe that no one has tried this card in type 1 it's sick. solves everything and i recover faster.
1 tinker- yes, i don't like it but it gets karn , the silver mox monkey vs control, 'core vs aggro, and jar vs everything.
1 karn- silver mox monkey... he's cool but most of the time i'd rather have a shaman, but that required red. oh well, he still eats moxen. i can cast him early either way and i like b2b.
1 masticore- weenie rape.... any questions?
1 memory jar- broken, or no?
"bad artifact mana"- upheaval...... morphling...... tinker..... 'core.... need i say more? it's good in here
problems so far:
blue # 2 after upheaval- i can't get it. Although I guess I shouldn’t complain since I just twisted their hand and killed all their permanents. Thinking about adding 1 eye of ramos but there must be something better.
Anyway, it’s obviously in the early stahes, I just wanted to get some opinions
By CF (Cf) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 11:34 am: Liquid blue, huh? Seeing how liquid is usually used as a word FOR blue (liquid green = U/G etc), the name just sounds goofy :oP
What good is the Gushes here?
--
Chris
By Lord of the Goats (Goat) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 12:12 pm: i like the name..... redundant, but it seems to fit. gushes are really great actually. with the amount of artifacts, the mana disadvantage means nothing. besides, you're going to upheaval anyway and gushing in response is good since they're going back to your hand anyway. it also goes well with masticore since you never need more than 2-3 blue sources and pitching islands is better than pitching actual cards. try it out, not exactly what you want to cast on turn 2, but turn 3 is not at all uncommon. it's also nice to refill your hand to get an active library. like i said i started building and testing it last night so it's largly untested... but gush is quite good.
By Dandan (Dandan) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 04:52 am: Have you tried Vise?
Upheaval plus Vise can kill and most control decks don't like being subjected to a Vise.
Looks like aggro will kill you before you can upheaval and if they don't they'll kill you after upheaval.
By Lord of the Goats (Goat) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 11:37 am: well, i was testing against a budget sui (3 icequake 1 sinkhole, no mox or lotus) yesterday.... we playerd about 20 (i won over half) games or so with out boards (which is good since i don't have one.) the following situation came up a hell of alot:
he has 2 creatures, and i'm within killing distance even if i kill 1, obviusly loosing. i that situation. so i upheaval.... redrop my artifact mana and the game becomes very 1 sided.
upheaval is very good against sui, it was game every time, regardless of board position or life totals. i need to test vs sligh next since it's faster. i'm pretty happy with my first game vs sui at this point, especially since ose has a lot of trouble and i figured i would too. gush is very good vs sui since it softens hymn and saves lands.
the other thing i found out was that city of trators was really nice to pitch for a core upkeep, but thats it most of the time i'd rather have a blue source.
i'll try a vise, but it seems like it's just a trick since i'll win after upheaval anyway and i don't want it vs aggro. perhaps a sb card but i don't think i'll have room
By Lord of the Goats (Goat) on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 02:22 pm: i seriously think this deck has a lot of potential.... help me out here
By Lord of the Goats (Goat) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 10:53 pm: well, i made a few alterations....
blue- 26
3 gush
3 morph
2 upheaval
4 force of will
4 drain
2 mana leak
1 mystical
1 mis-d
1 fof
1 walk
1 stroke
1 geyser
1 ancestral
1 merchant scroll
-black- 3
1 demonic
1 twist
1 will
-artifact(nonmana)- 3
1 karn
1 masticore
1 memory jar
-mana- 30
1 crypt
1 vault
1 grim monolith
1 sol ring
5 moxen
1 lotus
12 island
1 academy
1 strip
4 sea
1 library
well, as i explained above, i cut the city of traitors. i also cut tinker.... it's great to get jar/core/karn, but in my sui testing i usually wished it was sometine else. i cut a a gush too since i don't want to see more than 2 in a typical match. those 2 slots became mana leaks. karn will probally be the next thing i cut, but i havn't tested vs anything other than sui yet.... and it's realy nice to animate you're own mana crypt when you're done with it. he does look good vs control on paper though
i urge people to try this deck.... i don't have the resources to really test everything i should.... so i have to rely on a lot of guess work at this point. i just found a tourney coming up (apparently competative type 1!!! which i'm sure most of us have trouble finding) so i definatly want to kick some heads in(if i can gather the cards i need
). anyway, i would greatly appreciate any help i can get.
i'm also open to side board suggestions, i figured these would probally be good:
b2b- do i need to explain?
divert- i really like these, i'm not sure how good they are in actual play though.
hibernation- there's always stompy and choke
chill/beb- sligh... although i haven't even tested the matchup, maybe extra cores would be better.... or kegs?
certianly open to suggestions, and especially testing results if anyone feels like trying it
By The Dystopian (Dystopian) on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 03:14 am: Are you sure you can win Suiblack consistently? They have the discard to disrupt you and Upheaval is not likely to save you in time.
By Lord of the Goats (Goat) on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 08:28 am: no, i'm not sure (if i was sure i wouln't be asking for help, i'd be at neutral ground winning).... as i said earier, i was testing against a budget sui.... so it was probally less than optimal, and i said i won just over half the games. however, upheaval definaly does it's job.... without rituals for a fast restart, they can't recover well at all especially since hippies and negators cost 3, and they shouldn't have much discard (and it woud probally just hit lands anyway). sarco's and carno's suck vs a morph, and nantuko shade isn't very good with no swamps. between the artifact mana and gushes, i can generate the needed mana for upheaval and soften discard.
if you have doubts, feel free to try it out and prove me wrong.... that's actually what i wish someone would do, try it out.
By The Dystopian (Dystopian) on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 10:21 am: To cast Gush, you need to return Islands. This slows down your mana. I don't think Upheaval is going to do its job well. Most aggro decks have Null Rods to handle Moxen and other irritating artifacts. A well timed Duress/Hymn can prevent Upheaval.
Use Ophidian for card drawing? 