Beyond Dominia: The Rules Mill: Opalescence+humility=confusing...

By Luc, Use The Force on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 03:30 pm:

My opponent has a bunch of enchantments and an Opalescence. I cast an Humility,

1)I think he can't activate for example an Aura of silence to destroy it in response. (I'm I right?)

2) But something is strange to me: Due to opalescence, all enchantments are now creatures and keep their abilities. But Humility makes creatures loosing their abilities, so what happens to the Humility?

3) If there is 2 Opalescence in play, I think my Humility will work bad too 'cause it makes Opalescences loosing their abilities first (not shure again) and is not affected by them, but if they loose their ability, other enchantments won't be creatures!!!!

4) What if there is only one opalescence in play, I cast Humility and he casts another Opalescence on next turn?

Plese help me resolving that paradox.



By Nevyn, the Village Idiot (Nevyn) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 03:37 pm:

i suggest you apologize for this post before Serra reads it, as this question gives Serra migraines and inevitably results in tantrums.

By Luc, Use The Force on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 03:48 pm:

So, this is a real paradox??

Sorry to make you work guys! :-p

If somebody would like to explain me, I'd really appreciate.


By Nevyn, the Village Idiot (Nevyn) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 04:02 pm:

There is a clear cut answer, I just always forget the exact ruling and hate to look it up. This also inevitably leads to more 'what ifs' and arguments and that's why Serra hates the question.

Anyway, here are your answers:

1) you are correct. Humility comes into play, immediately gets turned into a 4/4 by Opalescence, then makes itself and all other enchantments 1/1's with no abilities. Since this is all continuous effects, you never get to respond before Aura is 1/1. Of course you can aura the opalescence before humility resolves .....

2) These effects are applied in order and once, so humility gets animated then removes all creatures abilities, including it's own. Removing it's own never matters as it has already removed all others, and thats the way it stays. This may be counter-intuitive and is really a rules 'fudge' , but that's the ruling.

Extra opalescences also seem counterintuitive but don't change the result. You can further complicate this but this is the basis for most of the rulings.

By Andrew, the Sphinx Slayer (Andrew) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 04:57 pm:

No, extra opalescences change the result. This is due to the dependancy loop rules. They state that for any loop, you go through the loop exactly once and stop. Card effects are applied in timestamp order. So, if the order of the three entering play is

OOH: Each opalescence animates itself and each other enchantment. Then humilit is applied (all one one's)

OHO: The first opalescence is applied, making all other enchantments critters, then humility is applied making all critters 1/1's. The second op. has no text now, so does nothing. The first op. is an enchantment.

HOO: Humility makes all creatures 1/1's. Then the op's make all enchantments big strong lads, and they stay like that because humility has already been applied.

By Serra (Serra) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 11:14 am:

*runs screaming into the night* $#%$%*$%*^*&$%^

By Matt The Great on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 01:18 pm:

Hey, how about a ruling stating that you may not play with those, because if you do you're a f'in jackass.

By Luc, Use The Force on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 02:24 pm:

Well... I don't know such a rulling, but if you talk about playing both cards in the same deck, I must agree that you're searching trouble.

By Gzeiger (Gzeiger) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 02:32 pm:

Andrew the Sphinx Slayer once proposed the Lead Pipe Rule:


Anyone who plays with both Opalescence and Humility in the same deck, or with Volrath's Shapeshifter at all, must be able to clearly explain all rules relating to these cards to the satisfaction of all players present, or be beaten with lead piping

Seems like a good solution to me.

By shinano on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 11:57 pm:

sounds like a good deck to me you have an alternate win by boring the rest of the players to death!

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