OCB UR Madness Constructive Critisism is Appreciated

Beyond Dominia: The Type Two Magic Mill: OCB UR Madness Constructive Critisism is Appreciated

By Grimmshaw on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 07:25 pm:

Our group is already testing Block.

Here is what I am trying:

4 Grim Lavamancers
4 Minotaur Explores
4 Pardic Firecats
2 Scrivners

4 Flame Burst
4 Firey Temper
2 Volcanic Explosion
2 Firey Gambits

4 Aether Bursts
4 Compulsion
2 Think Tank
4 Obsessive Search
2 Peek

4 Barbarian Rings
2 Cephalid Collesiums
2 Red Land that can Tap for R or Tap & Sac for any color.
6 Islands
5 Mountains

If I can get out a Compulsion early I win. If my opponent gets one out too i still usually win. If he gets one and I don't I have problems...

The scrivenrs are in there solely for Aether Burst recycle. As long at there is one AeBurst in the graveyard I can bounce a creature and the scrivner and keep getting back the AeBurst. I figure that block is the only place this MIGHT work...

Again this deck is in initial testing stages... I need to get a compulsion or even a think tank to get going...

My Sideboard has tenatively:

4 Blazing Salvo
2 Volcanic Erpution
2 Flaming Gambits
4 Circular Logic

May add
Liquify, Syncopate

Anyone have any suggestions?

By Grimmshaw on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 07:27 pm:

Er uh the side board has Volcanic Explosion... Not Eruptions lol Volcanic Eruptions bad.... lol

I was also contemplating Devistating Dreams in the side board..

Turbulent Dreams Should be in the sideboard since I have no artifact/enchantment control...

By SpectralShift on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 08:39 pm:

I built a UR deck just after torment, and this is what I ended up with:

4 Firebolt
4 Fiery Temper
4 Violent Eruption
4 Æther Burst

4 Compulsion

2 Kamahl, Pit Fighter
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Savage Firecat

4 Obsessive Search
4 Overmaster

11 Mountain
11 Island

More or less counter burn with large creatures. The overmaster is there only as a cantrip, I found that liquify/circular logic didn't help nearly as much as I thought it would. Syncopate seems better, but this deck really loves tapping out, and its removal is so good. I can't really think of must counters, really. It does rely on compulsion an awful lot, but it has a very solid base even so (8 cantrips and a whole whack of efficient cards).

By Eric R. Reitz on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 08:12 am:

where are the looters. I know the cephilid is not as good as the merfolk but he still works.

By Grimmshaw on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 10:58 am:


Well my creatures are more geared to deal damage. The Minotaur explorers work pretty well with 10 mandess cards albeit I only expect to madness 9 of them: fiery temper: madness R or obsesive search; madness U...

The pardic Firecats may be 4 mana but they get an extra 2 damage in due to haste and they do power up the Flame bursts if and when they end up in the graveyard.

Looter and brokers are too fragile and would be more for card drawing (which is useful), however this deck is meant to deal maximum damage as quickly as possible...

Spectral Shift:

I did think about Overmaster and might religate a couple to my sideboard, however i figure peek is better since it is a cantrip, is an instant (Overmaster is a sorcery I think), and lets me look at my opponent's hand.

You are running 22 land which is ok, however I run 6 catrips (again I think peek is more beneficial than Overmaster unless playing against counters). I also use thinktank as a permanent opt of sorts.. Yes it is 3CC but for 2U and no activation... it gets me closer to a Compulsion.

I am running 19. I only have 6 4CC and 2 5CC cards. I will admit that I might try replacing the Scrivners with Kamahl giving me 0 5cc and 2 6cc. Its just that he is so fragile. but a 6/1 haste that can tap for 3 damage is good.

I do believe that circular logic can be as good as can syncopate. I think Liquify will be the least useful counter (except against green).

What I am going to try:

-2 Scrivners, -2 Thinktanks, -2 Peeks
+2 Savage Firecats, +2 Kamahl, +2 Careful Study.

I will try the cats (although this deck likes to tap out on my opponent's turn). Kamahl is a reusable bolt and just seems like it just might work. I am using the Careful Study to move through more cards. Peek is nice with it replacing itself and getting me 1 card closer to threshhold, however, Careful Study (at the cost of U and -1 net card loss) lets me get closer to threshhold AND gives me hand manipulation.

The deck now looks like this:

4 Grim Lavamancers
3 Minotaur Explores
4 Pardic Firecats
2 Savage Firecats
2 Kamahl, Pit Fighter Ledgend Guy

4 Flame Burst
4 Firey Temper
2 Volcanic Explosion
2 Firey Gambits

4 Aether Bursts
4 Compulsion
4 Obsessive Search
2 Careful Study

4 Barbarian Rings
2 Cephalid Collesiums
2 Red Land that can Tap for R or Tap & Sac for any color.
6 Islands
6 Mountains

Sideboard is looking kinda like:

Blazing Salvo
Volcanic Erpution
Flaming Gambits
Circular Logic

ANother thought is to replace an island with the blue land that T:U, T, sac 1 mana any color (giving me three lands that do this) and including the white enchantment kill with madness of W. JUst a thought

ANy other suggestions would be appreciated..

Also what is everyone's oppinion on (from memeory)

Hell-bent Raider (1RR haste First strike, 2/2 discard a card: "" gains protection from white til end of turn).

Thank you for the input... More Advice and opinions would be greatly welcome.

By NiCk on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 12:26 pm:

You need to protect your Compulsion, so Circular Logic Could be good.

By Myre_Skeleton (Myre_Skeleton) on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 11:01 pm:


Mental Discipline had it's uses, especially in Masticore counter wars when you ran out of "free" counters, but what purpose does it serve now? I slow way of getting Threshold?

By Warwolf (Warwolf) on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 11:40 pm:

1. Compulsion is CHEAPER. 3 mana is a lot different than 2.

2. Compulsion replaces itself, which Discipline failed to do.

3. MADNESS. Compulsion + madness spells = card advantage.

By De (De) on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 06:07 am:

If you get time to playtest you will see that Compulsion is very strong in standard and OBC.

In more detail:

1. What 2cc means is that it can play under aggro control decks which could counter FoF but can't touch an enchantment. Similarlry you can play it with 3 or 4 open and still Disrupt or Counter.

2. Frankly, I hardly ever see anyone saccing compulsion, because I don't see anyone targeting it. The important thing to note is that it can discard further copies of itself. That means playing four is never a problem.

3. Obssesive Search is a key card. It looks absolutely harmless but its very slippery. It combos with Compulsion to provide card advantage, which is no small matter. But before Compulsion hits the table it just replaces itself. So there is no bad combination of these two cards, as they generally help to find each other.

Its also important to see the problem with Compulsion/Obsessive Search in that you need 3cc to get the advantage, but only 2cc to use Compulsion. This means that its better to stabilize on odd mana than even mana, even though its counter-intuitive most of the time.

By SpectralShift on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 04:00 pm:

All of the comments above are valid and good.

The main reason compulsion is good now is that it abuses madness. Being able to turn every madness spell into a cantrip makes it extremely powerful. For instance, a card that read "R, Deal three damage to target creature or player. Draw a card" would be insane... Granted, with compulsion it costs 1UR, but its still amazing.

Also, it even works really well with flashback... AND threshold. How good is that? The card works with every mechanic in the block, and how! Originally you had to worry about focussing on one particular strategy (RG with firebolts/herds would never use krosan beast, for instance)... Instead compulsion works as a bridge, allowing different cards to work together.


Anyway, back onto the deck...

Minotaur explorers just aren't playable in this block. G has better creatures, B has too much kill, U has too much bounce, R has too much 3dmg removal... and white is simply bad right now. Even so, it has a ton of pro-red creatures.

Pardic firecats suffer from the same problem. UR has to deal with the opponents cards way too early to afford higher CC creatures. UR eventually wins through massive card advantage generated from compulsion and other 2-1's.

The reason I play with kiddie rares in my version is that they always force the opponent into a particular position. A 7/7 creatures MUST be dealt with quickly. It doesn't hurt me too much since I will already have cleared the board. Kamal is also just one of those cards that allows you to completely dominate the board. Only R + B can kill him really, and you have the advantage in the U, G and W matchup. Aether burst is only really countered by Spellbane, which every removal spell in the deck can kill. Aether also deals with your only problem... really big creatures. Roar of the wurm is the main problem for this deck... as well as krosan beast and similar.

Grim lavamancer is a nighmare for most decks since it works wonders with the UR archtype. Not only are you getting 2-1 with compulsion (hopefully) but now you can add two damage to any of your burn. Carrion wurm seems like a problem -- now it just takes firey temper and a lavamancer. It never produces card disadvantage, and it never hurts your deck. The worst case is removing two firebolts... Removing one means you cast it as an instant for R.

The only reason I ran overmaster was because of my dependence on R mana. This way I had split my cantrips in half, which seems to play safer than increasing my U mana and running peek and Obsessive search.

You never really need to protect your compulsion. The entire deck works on EOT strategies, so you can always sac it at worst. Circular logic does NOT work well in this deck. It is just too slow, and lavamancer eats you up... (Yes, he normally stays on the table because you cantrip into multiples easily. Plus, they have to worry about everything else). Syncopate is marginally ok in the format, but liquify is only really effective if you play first. Otherwise it just isn't mana efficient (always casting you the same or more to counter) and it is conditional. Generally speaking, you don't need the additional control either, since the deck has very little to fear specifically.

The only problem, ironically, is the sphere of law. It reduces your ability to kill them significantly. Your only main source of damage is the Savage firecat... which is not terribly reliable. The possibility of running a secondary kill condition (blue creature, or ambassador laquatus) is an idea.

De is right about the odd mana. It is better to end on odds in the 3,5 area, but better to have 6,8 than 7. When making the deck, you should expect to have 3 mana for *sure* (90%+) on the third turn. Any less and your cantrips can't kick in and take you to 5 mana (the next major stage). After that, however, you want 6 or 8 mana, meaning you can cycle land against certain decks rather than aim for mid-range.

The reason is that your minimum mana for cycling and casting is 3 -- obsessive search and fiery temper. The next level is 5 mana, which is where volcanic eruption cycles, along with the ability to cycle land or sac compulsion with the 3cc cantrips. At 6 mana, your able to do multiple 3ccs, and at 8 mana your able to cast temper + eruption, or a combination of the 3cc ones, and still cycle land.

For all that seemingly useless information, there is one important lesson. You MUST get to 3 mana, and you must not stall at three mana. If you have the 3 mana in your hand, don't start using your obs searches until you are using compulsion (much safer if you have compulsion in hand). If you don't draw compulsion, you'll have to start cycling anyway. If you control the board at 5 mana, keep a land in hand, but start cycling land. If you don't have control, then getting to 6-8 land is a better idea, because as you get going, you start to draw into your second casting (at 8 mana, for instance, you can remove a COTH with fiery temper, and draw volcanic or are able to cycle the land away).

Anyway, that's my two bits on the UR archtype. I rather like it, but its weak matchup are the UG decks. They also run compulsion, and run on threshold. Large creatures abound, and they generate similar card quality advantage (cycling land, or into land as needed). I think they will make up a large portion of the field, unfortunately.

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